We, the Roma Women Network from Serbia, that gathers women activists, organizations and initiatives, and from whom some of us have been working over a decade on improving the position of Roma women and men, are asking you to join us with this letter in protest against the support of the manifestation "Miss Roma International" that is planned to take place in Skopje in 2007th.
The support coming from the Roma community to this kind of manifestation through advertisements and the approval is explicit in discrimination against Roma women. Romany community, which is vulnerable in all the countries where Roma people live, should be a safe place for us, Roma women, and we are requesting that you, activists who spread the idea of the universal human rights, to support and to develop it outside and within Roma community.
Manifestation that has in its program a selection of the "most beautiful" girl, degrading women and putting us in the merchandise position, showing us as the beings which do not worth much, as bodies which have to fulfill standards that are forced upon us, since they must be young, thin, high, and through those fulfillment our "value" can be shown.
We should not forget that the sole concept of beauty is the social construction compliant with social trends, and it is artificially produced from modern industries and developed monopolistic countries, in order to make profit.
The concept of beauty in the modern world, apart from the sexist one, has an racial dimension too, because it has white Anglo-Saxon and German race as a model.
It's not unknown that Black men and women as well as Latino Americans in America believe to be beautiful if their complexion is whiter, and we see an example of Asian men and women who adjust their appearance more and more to the European standards.
Though racism becomes a theme that can be publicly discussed and fought against, it is deep-rooted even within ourselves, and we look up to the culture that is dominant and monopolistic, following it with little thinking.
Even if we try to create the concept of beauty – we, Roma men and women are many on the different ends of the world, with physical characteristics of the climate where we live and we cannot talk anymore about the universal appearance or to create its standards.
In a world from which we are demanding to respect diversity and individual freedom, according to the principals for which we stand for, we need to care for, celebrate and to support all those individuals that are appearing among ourselves.
Though the organizer of the selection for the Miss, Mr. Zoran Dimov, is calling the girls to become a part of this "traditional" festival in a hurry, we must remind that in the Romany tradition, on which many Roma activists are calling upon, there is no concept of a pretentiousness with the beauty, and this phenomenon is relatively new one.
Instead of promoting the looks; it is time to promote what is useful for all of us. We, Roma women have the shortest life span in Europe, amongst all illiterate Roma adults, 80% are women. They don't employ us, they don't trust in our capabilities and they are treating us without respect.
Do you ever ask yourselves how Roma women feel as they are walking to be rated by others? Does their self-confidence get stronger only if others approve their bodies and only how much in the moment for those, most often to organizers and those who influence to selection, they are beautiful, young, and sexy? Is there other ways for them to be happy, strong and self-reliable?
Don't you think that, instead of forcing our appearance, that will made us only a decoration in home, should be celebrated our empowerment, better health, education, employment, advancement, personal success?
And in the end, we are calling all of you to think about our media. Which values media are promoting if they are calling us to work on something that endangers half of the Romany population?
Do all of us, female and male activists, work enough on their education or do we assume that they will comprehend themselves all?
Like the media, like Romany community…and media is such as we are, with our influence, modeling them.
Again I see Roma kopeing traditions from nonroma society. This is an ashame of our culture.
This is for me a way of explore women as objekts and I can not see anything positiv in this wh do they not do a beautycontest for men instead if they find this spectacle importent.
Sorry to say but I think there are moore importent issiues that could need this energi from the arrengers.
As a woman, I am fundamentally opposed to beauty pageants. This isn't because I am an unattractive girl or because I haven't been guilty or unaware when my looks have worked to my advantage.....I know when I get a job/advantage and there's a woman less attractive than me, but more qualified....even when I'm a big hypocrite (I guess I could always turn things down on principle-but don't,) I know it's wrong.
We live in a culture of globalization and American entertainment is quickly destroying various art forms because it's so incredibly popular, so much money is invested into it as a business and it appeals to the lowest common denominator. There is poor or little arts education in schools in the US and real musicians, actors and dancers are replaced by models, pretty people or just people through nepotism that are airbrushed, have their voices altered, edited to make them look better, etc. Big corporations force feed these non-talent products down the public's throats until people become desensitized to the complete lack of talent, ability, intelligence or integrity in these individuals they call artists.
I feel beauty pageants feed into this destructive culture by emphasizing a woman's physical attributes (not everyone is born tall and thin or with the current ideal of beauty) with the "talent" competition being a joke. Haven't Roma women been subjugated enough? I know there are plenty of very beautiful Roma women out there, but is it fair to subject other Roma women who fall short of the standards of beauty to yet another kind of discrimination?
If the Roma community chooses to instead crown a young woman due to her talent, hard work and character and embrace Roma beauty instead of expecting her to look like the standards of wasp, white beauty with dark skin, she might fall short of current standards of pageant beauty(pretty but short, or beautiful but curvy-too meaty for the average beauty pageant contestant, etc) and then would she be expected to represent Roma women in the already standardized beauty pageant world? It seems like a bit of a no win situation to me.
I feel that Roma women should be recognized for their talent and strong character and the looks should be icing on the cake......it would be truly gutsy for a community to give their women that much respect.....beauty pageants are a way to hold women down. How would someone like Esma R. be viewed in a beauty pageant? If this kind of mentality sneaks in, where will that leave real Roma artists? Hasn't anyone heard about successful pop bands that have heavyset black women really singing, while skinny models lip sync in videos? What happens to all the strong, intelligent, older women in the Romani community when what is put out there to represent Roma is just a young, deer in the headlights?
I'm not saying that educating young Roma women on how to be savvy in society and acknowledging unfortunately looks do matter in our very shallow world that's rapidly becoming a fishbowl with globalization, but acknowledging it and making Roma women savvy about it is different then degrading them with a beauty pageant that puts women on the same level as prized cows.
Why not have the Roma community start giving woman honors for being outstanding musicians? Artists? Doctors? Social work? Outstanding work for human rights? Just an idea........to gain acceptance I see know reason to embrace the lowest kind of entertainment.
People entering beauty pageants usually invest a huge amount of money and resources and can basically make pageants a career. Young women should be encouraged to put that much time and money into something more substantial...lots of time and money invested into an education is different than being the "bestest and the prettiest!" And what's better the young woman who spends all her time concerned with her looks; exercises for hours every day, spends excessive amount of money on things like cosmetics or even plastic surgery in an effort to achieve "perfection," with an empty head or the young woman who's well educated, and/or talented and proficient in her field and has beauty; even if it's not "perfect." Think about what kind of message young Roma women should hear.....what does the Roma community want to encourage in it's young women?
I want to give my support for this protest against 'Miss Roma International' contest. Roma women and women in general have been on the weaker position very long time every where and I think that the contest like this is not helping our position at all, rather make it even more difficult. It's more than sad to realise that some Roma men are very keen to have 'Miss Roma' contests and make women objects. I don't even need to tell you about the disgusting phenomen where Roma men sell/have sold there ?beautiful? Roma sisters/daughters for 'markets'. It's also a bit bizarre that countries who are just struggling with primary well fare topics among the Roma population have money/energy to organise these kind of contests. Could it be more useful and wiser to support people in their daily life?
At the same time these kind of contests are a message to the main society that Roma customs and respect towards each other is really disappearing slowly but surely and I think that is very shameful.
Yours sincerely
Janette Grönfors
Chair woman, Nevo Roma ry, Finland
Secretary & Communication Coordinator of IRWN (International Roma Women Network)
janettegronfors@gmail.com
We should never forget one discrimination over the other. Gender based discrimination should not be excluded or overlooked. Otherwise we can not fight against oppression effectively, recognising only one dimension can be very harmfull to effort that people make in this fight. It can make the fight also ridiculous and in-consistent with its basic philosophy ... equality for all while respecting all differences ...
I applaud the reaction from our sisters in Serbia to protest against the Miss Roma International 2007.
I am ashamed to live in a country where around 80% of the Roma population face uneployment and severe poverty, limited access to pubic services, youth totally excluded from society and women facing multiple forms of violence while individuals are putting together a contest to choose the 'most beautiful Roma woman'.
I have witnessed how women are treated during this contest in the past and that is intolerable.
I call Mr. Dimov to take responsibility and cancel this manifestation and instead focus energy and available resources to address real burning issues of Roma women in Macedonia through all the positions he holds:
- General Secretary of the International Romani Union
- owner of BTR Television
- founder of the Roma Economic Forum in Macedonia
- board member of Roma International Centre in Macedonia
- initiator for the establishment of Roma information business center
I would also like to call Roma men - human rights activists to support this protest and voice the urgency of cancelling Miss Roma International.
We're living in the 21st century now, not back in the 1800s where some people's values seem to be stuck. I think the Miss Roma competition is a positive event. I don't see a problem with it. Roma girls have the same rights as any other girls to feel special, and perhaps the winner might help with Roma issues after being crowned. That'd be nice.
I never saw something so misogynistic before. I support everything that it is
contributing somehow to the improvement of Roma situation, but this activity it is
just a matter of PR of a controversial Roma "activist" - named Zoran Dimov.
I hope that the Romani movement (and not only) for allover will protest against of
such event that it is not targeting the improvement of Roma image and situation and
fully contributing to the reverse.
This kind of contests happened as well in my country called "miss piranda". Nobody
respect the organizer and the Romanian Roma Civil Society and Human Rights NGOs
protested. These kinds of actions are the result of some Roma individual that moved by
opportunism, egoism and irresponsibility are organizing such events only for MONEY.
Ciprian Necula
Last edited on Sat Jul 14th, 2007 11:03 pm by Valery_Novoselsky
Dear ladies, Respecting your attitudes, we are addressing you in purpose to share our opinions, with no intention of any excuses. We are not sure if you disgust beauty pageants in general or you have a problem when it comes particularly to Roma beauty contest. However, it’s not our intention to enter into polemics, because there always were, there are and there will be people thinking different, and that’s fine. There are always reasons Pro and Contra, but the skill is to make a correct assessment if something offers more benefits or harms. And our assessment is obvious.
The idea of the organizer has two dimensions: individual and collective. Individual dimension implies that Roma young women all over the world are given opportunity to experience something new and unforgettable.
Miss Roma International is a format that enables Roma women present their beauty, grace, charm, personality and pure womanhood. Roma girls coming from the Balkan, Eastern and Western Europe and worldwide have unique chance to travel and visit other country, meet new people, have great time and gain a lot of pleasant memories.
Having in mind that Roma woman has been neglected throughout the centuries, within already closed, conservative and traditional Roma community, with no difference of the country it belongs to, this event aims to encourage young women to look after themselves, strive for their own spiritual perfection, get emancipated, independent and goal-oriented when it comes to their future.
There are many girls which have no alternatively opportunity for realization of their ambitions and self-prove, so let’s give them chance to make their dream come true, to grow as women and fell worth and accomplished.
The other, collective dimension implies the opportunity for gathering Roma people from different parts of the world together, socializing, mutual introduction, joint experience of common music, customs and tradition, as well as representing those of the country there are coming from, strengthening the collective feelings and identity of Roma community etc.
Republic of Macedonia as an aspirant country for membership the EU membership, welcoming Roma people all over the world every year contributes to continuation of cosmopolitan tradition.
At the same time, this enables improved awareness and determination to fight conservatism and isolation of Roma community, fight discrimination and stereotypes, as well as opportunity to show the world that Roma people have what to show, have culture and tradition that they are proud of.
Generally, there are many feminists criticizing beauty contest for how they present women and reproaching that girls are objects of others’ gazes. But beautiful women always attract attention and anywhere they are objects of others’ gazes. On the other hand, there are also male beauty contests, so there is no sexist connotation or reason why should women fell humiliated or degraded or discriminated. At the end of the day, no one forced to do something if he/she don’t want to; there is always choice and you make yours depending on your perceptions, beliefs and your own will.
Miss Roma International promotes not only physical or external woman beauty. Our pageant system fights stereotypes and believes that Roma girls as well should be and are well-spoken, intelligent, self-confident, talented, shining and radiating positive energy. This kind of event is great opportunity to animate Roma young women start thinking and express their attitudes on such topics as Roma woman emancipation, facing prejudges and stereotypes, discrimination versus social integration of Roma people, human trafficking and so like.
Undoubtedly, beauty contest in general have great influence over the audience, especially younger girls and teenagers identifying themselves with the beauty queens, so we think that this profile of Roma beauty is a perfect model to make these kids understand that if they want be successful they should be well educated and self confident and animate them to strive to become complete, to acquire academic skills, to fight for respect and equal opportunities and so on.
You should also have in mind that such title as Miss Roma International could be powerful weapon in smart girl’s hands if she used it to contribute for the benefit of her community and people. Beauty contests sometimes attract objections, particularly if they violate local religious or cultural practices, for example, they are considered offensive and immoral because female participants are not dressed modestly or they wear swimsuits. When it comes to the religious issues, you should have in mind that Roma in this region do not belong to one and only confession. There are Muslims, Orthodox, Catholics, Jehovah’s, and so on, so you can’t base your objections on religious and moral principles.
The organizer has always took care that everything is at correct and proper level, the girls are always treated with respect and if you have read our propositions you would have seen that they have their female escorts, which could be their manager, mother, sister or relative.
The organizer absolutely respects the tradition of Roma people, but we are also aware that it’s necessary to become more open community and to enable Roma women get emancipated, open-minded and independent. Until now, as Mrs. Enisa Eminova herself wrote in one of the e-mails, there were no Roma women activists and NGO-s reproaching this event, exclusively some individuals expressing their personal opinion. In addition, until now there are about 200 Roma young women, who took part at the Miss Roma International, and still there exists a great interest. Also, inquires have shown that there is great rating and popularity of this event, which is broadcasted through TV BTR Nacional. I would also like to point out that our TV in association with other Roma organizations in Macedonia also works on other aspects of living of Roma community in Macedonia. As well, we are organizing education, trainings and employment for Roma people, especially paying attention to women, Roma economic forums, media workshops, music and cultural manifestations etc., so we think that event like this contributes to enclose a whole.
We had an opportunity to present our positions on BBC radio’s open and live program, broadcasted on 08.07.2007, whose topic was exactly the issue Miss Roma International – Pro or Contra. During the program two ladies called and expressed their absolute support on holding this happening, but also another lady expressing her disgust. Her comment was like: “Would Marija Serifovic entered and won your competition…but she won Euro song 2007"????
Referring to this, we are asking all of you: Didn’t the lady herself at the very beginning make cruel discrimination by her comment and what does it implies – why could not beautiful Marija be part of beauty contest; and based on which criteria the lady has made that assessment??? And even more: if we look on issues that way, we might ask would any of our contestant won Euro song, as well?
EACH PERSON HAS SPECIAL QUALITIES AND AFFINITIES. THEREFORE EVERYONE SHOULD FIND ITS OWN WAY TO ACCENT THEM, SO ACCOMPLISH HER/HIM!
Still, we think there are many much more important issues concerning Roma women. What is Miss Roma International compared to the tradition of buying (literally!!!) Roma women as wives, which is unfortunately still prevalent phenomenon in some countries??? Think about that! At the end, we would like kindly inform you that Miss Roma International 2007 will take place on 25.08.2007 in Skopje, Macedonia. We are honestly inviting you to attend the event and then, if you still feel needed, we could share our opinions again. People say that the path to the hell is flagged with best intentions. Undoubtedly, our acts always were, are and will be inspired by best intentions. We believe yours too.
A GOOD WOMAN INSPIRES A MAN, A BRILLIANT WOMAN INTERESTS HIM, A BEAUTIFUL WOMAN FASCINATES HIM AND AN INTELLIGENT WOMAN GETS HIM.
thank you for challenge of the wayway event " Miss Romani International" in Skopje which is detrimental to the Romany Custom and Code of Life.It is a disgrace for Roma.
Such a festival is able to destroy the Romani moral.
With all my full support.
Phurom,
Valdemar Kalinin, Romani poet.
v.kalinin@btopenworld.com
The International Romani Women Network (IRWN) strongly protests against the
organisation of the Miss Roma International competition in Skopje/Macedonia
and calls for its boycott. We are extremely disgusted by the fact that the
organiser dares to present this event as an act which contributes to the
emancipation of Romani women.
Romani women are beautiful and strong. Over generations they have led the
lives of their communities and people and contributed to preserve Romani
culture and tradition. They have suffered double discrimination as Roma and as women.
Beauty contests are nothing but the perpetration of a centuries-old history
where women are at the sole service of men. It is men who decide about
their lives and destiny. It is men who decide over the price to pay for a woman.
Romani women have a right to respect and to dignity! They have a right to
independent life! They have a right to joy and happiness! They do not need
to be rated on their physical appearance on the basis of criteria which are
taken from picture magazines.
We call on everyone to publicly denounce the organisation of Romani miss
competitions. No publicity should be given to such events which are at odds
with our culture and tradition.
We call on Romani men to stand with us in our fight together against
discrimination of Romani women. You cannot expect our support if you
support attitudes and events which are discriminatory against Romani women.
You have to understand that Romani people are one, and there will be no
emancipation of Romani people as long as Romani women continue to be
oppressed!
Soraya Post /President IRWN Board on
behalf of all IRWN members.
Letter from Mrs Soraya Post, International Romani Women Network
International Romani Women Network, 29.07.2007
To the male Roma political leaders, To Stahiro and Rudko,
We, the International Romani Women Network, are looking for your support on this issue! We expect your solidarity with the Romani women movement.
IRWN stands for the traditional Roma way of thinking. We are proud of our Roma culture.
If you, Roma men, do not want to hold on our culture any longer and respect our traditions, please do not pretend that you are Roma!
If you do not react and support us on this issue, do not even think that you speak the same language, because you are not Roma any longer! You have sold your ethnicity!
If you are Roma you know that the organisation of so-called beauty contests is totally against our traditions. Our girls are not allowed to expose themselves as sex objects.
They do not have to hide their bodies and wear long skirts, but this kind of events is clearly unacceptable.
This is why I am counting on your reaction against the organisation of Miss Roma International and similar events.
I am calling in particular on Stahiro: As President of the International Romani Union you have to tell your member and representative to stop this show!
I am also calling on Rudko as President of the European Roma and Travellers Forum to suspend the mandate of the organiser of this show until we receive further clarification!
If you are not ready to cooperate with us on this issue you will not be able to count on our support in the future!
(I am happy to teach everyone who wants or needs so what kind of behaviour is acceptable within Roma community.)
Me sim Romni, Dej, Mami, Sockera. Dosta puri sim te janav pa soste vorbinas.
Bax sastimo tumari phej, bibi Soraya.
Best Regards /Vänlig Hälsning
Soraya Post
International Romani Women Network
sorayapost@hotmail.com
I read all posts and I would like to say I'm familiar with the issue, but unfortunately I dont see what's your problem, folks.
It's a normal miss event - event going on everywhere even called Miss World... I dont understand why the non-Roma can participate in such events and why Roma girl shouldnt - isnt it about opportunities? Go and ask girl in the community what she wanna be - and the fist answer would be a singer, then a model...
Please guys, explane what is the problem, cause I cant catch it.
Tnx
Best regards,
Emil
Justin wrote: Go and ask girl in the community what she wanna be - and the fist answer would be a singer, then a model...
Please guys, explane what is the problem, cause I cant catch it."
Hello Justin/Emil,
this is exactly what is the problem.....
all girls want to be a model and live up to the expectations , norms and standards of patriarchal communities/societies!
and the problem is not just with Roma women participating at such events but any woman!
and speaking of Roma women, what exactly is it that you call an opportunity here?
they will travel to Skopje, Macedonia... will show their bodies to men, will be mis-treated by Zoran Dimov and the rest of the gang..... will be interviewed about their dreams (and as you know they will all say they want to become models, hairdressers -- all of which is traditionaly gendered occupations) and will go home...... any educational opportunity? anything about their personal development?
now, i am missing your point regarding opportunities....
what is there offered as opportunities?
Kashali
p.s if you support sexism as a form of discrimination, you should not be opposing racism either... are you ok with racism?
I guess you all have problem with this man Zoran Dimov and his gand maybe he doesnt have nice reputation and I dont care. Is it the point whenever there is a kind of event then you (I mean not only you Kashalii) should do the same, dont you? Doesnt matter Roma or Non-Roma.
By the way your agruments are not showing any gender point but just feminism. Probably you should ask on that event be men to be present as well. Why only women?
My point about opportunity was that young Roma girl could go out of their communities, meet other countries, other girls in their age, making friendship and start thinking about themselves not as private housekeeper, cleaner, coocker etc.
Then in my mind comes (speaking about any educational opportunities) just ask some extra activities, educational one, seminar, workshop, whatever kind of activities that will contribute to the development of those young girls
P.S. I dont support sexism or racism, but lately I'm hearing feminism prettending to be gender. wrong!
The person refered to under the name Kashali, does not seem to be presenting a feministic view, and is presenting valid examples of GENDER. But the poster Justin seems to say that if gender was the issue then why is not male inclusion made as an argument. Male inclusion would hardly be an argument regarding gender, but more along the lines of biology. Gender is based on cultural perception of biological distinctions. I choose not to give examples of how Roma woman have been steralized based on Gender, and the valid examples made by Hashali of how male dominated cultural description decided the faith of others, as have gadzhe of Roma, as have whites of blacks and so on. Historic screw ups had countless people die based on misconceptions of the dominant because they did not have other perspectives aside their own. To the issue of biological inclusion in beauty pageants is simply to contradict the purpose of it. The most profitable industry of today is not the GYpsy Industry but the sex industry, and its best selling product is women, while it best customers are men. I am hardly a feminist, but am a man and dam well know that beauty pageants are watched by many men not for promoting women at all. Beauaty pageants are watched by people who also watch commercials and buy products. It is about capitalism, and men in such contests do not do as well on the market. So if you want to have your Roma sister or mother sold to viewers so she can have these "wonderful" oppurtunities, then you are a true capitalist, and like all good capitalistic ventures, such affairs should not be subsidized, and then trully can nature take its course and people choose to particpate freely. Any subsidies of such events by institutions that act on behalf of people through an elective process are indeed at fault for promoting a business, at the cost of placing persons at poverty level as this being their possible alternative. HIstory has shown how families had their own daughters engage in prostitution because this was permitted and in demand, and was seen as a possible alternative to starvation. This is hardly a feministic argument, but a cruel reality that promotes problem areas such as traffficing in the longrun.
maybe he doesnt have nice reputation and I dont care. Is it the point whenever there is a kind of event then you (I mean not only you Kashalii) should do the same, dont you? Doesnt matter Roma or Non-Roma.
